Connecting with Students for Greater Well-Being

Speaker 1 So let's go ahead and get started folks. So welcome to summit number five here at Huma Curation Project with Montessori. So today, we're gonna be talking about connecting the students with the focus on not only making students more, you know, better in general, not just academically but socially, emotionally, etcetera, but also teachers. Because it's not just enough to talk about students doing better overall, it's also about teachers doing better overall. But before we get started with that, I just wanna give a brief shout out to our Patreon supporters. And to kind of chill here for a second, the Human Restoration Project is involved right now. It's November funding drive. We're looking to expand our opportunities through micro credentialing as well as IRS five zero one c three funding so we can expand our operations. If you enjoy the summit and you like what we're doing as well as all of our free resources, podcast, etcetera, visit our website at humanrestorationproject.org. We really appreciate it. But now diving into kind of the format of this, essentially, Monte and I are gonna be talking about student well-being, but we really really really want you all to get involved. So either through the chat or even better through talking to us, either through audio or audio and video. If you click on the bottom of your screen, there should be a raise hand button. At any point, if you wanna chat, if you wanna respond to one of us, just hit that raise hand button and then I can invite you up. By default, that'll turn on your audio but you could turn on video if you'd like as well. But having you all involved in our conversation really adds a lot to this discussion because it's kind of the whole point. Before we turn the cameras on, Monty and I were talking about how really we're all in this together. And sometimes it seems like some people have it figured out, but really, none of us have it figured out. It's just that shared collective discussion that drives us all forward so we can start to figure things out. So, let's go ahead and do some introductions. First off, my name is Chris McNutt. I teach digital art and design at a public school in Springfield, Ohio. I am one of the founders of the Human Restoration Project, which again, we offer free resources for progressive educators, including the summit.

Speaker 2 And then, Monty, I'll let you introduce yourself. Hey, everyone. I'm so excited you're here today. So most of you know, I suppose. But if you don't, I'm a teacher out here in Washington State. I teach at Cheney High School. I teach tenth grade ELA. I spend quite a bit of time on my blog, Let's Change Education or Project 180 and I'm pretty active on Twitter and I'm just so excited that I become connected with all of you guys and I have an opportunity with with Chris and and the rest of the human res folks to to have this conversation today. So I'm just really excited.

Speaker 1 Awesome. Awesome. So let's just dive right into it. So we have three questions today that we're gonna be focusing on and all of them kind of relate to get together. But feel free to ask additional questions as they come up because the conversation will naturally flow. But let's just start off with the first question and then see where it goes from there. Again, hit the raise hand button if you have something to add or a question to ask or disagree with one of us. Any of those things is fair game. So the first question, Monti, and I'll have you start us off, is what are some practices or systems that get in the way of connecting or are disconnecting students and educators?

Speaker 2 Okay. So guys, bear with me here real quickly. I've kinda have an opening statement if you will. As I'm as I'm prone to do, I I kinda sat down this morning, put some of my thoughts together and and I asked myself the question, what gets in the way or what creates disconnect? So I'm just gonna read from my phone here really quickly. It won't take me very long, but I'm hoping it can kind of set the stage for our discussion on this first question. So here we go. Thank you for bearing with me. What gets in the way? Generally, but significantly, I think it's the edifice of education. We too often facilitate classroom experiences based on what we think should be rather than what is. We seem to have this weird worry that there's a set of eyes casting doubt and shame upon our practices if we don't comply with the system of beliefs, which in the end, I believe is largely imaginary. For example, many enter the system with little or no training on grading practices and so they out of necessity put into play practices based on what they think is supposed to be. Take late work penalties. Many teachers think they have to punish late work, that the system expects it, supports it for reasons ranging from fairness to responsibility, and the system becomes a fictional facade that gets in the way, creates a disconnect by creating acceptance among educators, students, parents and society that this is how things should be. It's how they've always been, it's how they'll always be. Of course, it doesn't have to be and for many of us we know it shouldn't be. I suspect that's why we're all here this morning, but despite our growing resistance from this recognition, it still largely is. And as such, it creates artificial experiences with unfortunate, and I believe unnecessary side effects, apathy, stress, confusion, competition, resentment, resistance, distrust, and misbehavior, and the list goes on. These effects create disconnect. We can address them, but we have to first set aside this adherence to the idea of what education is supposed to be and focus on what can be. The kids will show us the way. And so Chris, that's that's really what I believe is that this disconnect is created by this by this this idea that we have to adhere to the to the principles of education. And I'm not suggesting there aren't some important principles of education shared globally, you know, nationally, locally, etcetera. But I think by and large, when it comes to connecting teachers and students, those things get in the way. And and I think that we can do something about that.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm completely with you. When it comes to systems that tear us apart, you mentioned specifically grading practice. Right. When you start ranking and sorting students and making students basically feel bad when they do that or feel bad if they do something that you don't like or just like simple things like if you don't allow for retaking a test if you're giving the test, You're you're basically saying one shot that is all that matters and then you get into anxiety, depression, serious issues that are rapidly growing, especially in The United States. That really is not being addressed at a systemic level at least in the education system. One thing that I know that we've written about and I've spoken about a lot is how mindfulness practice is good in theory. Like, I I like the concept of, you know, like, even like the concept of, like, yoga in school and, like, like, being mindful with oneself and taking time to reflect. All of those things are very good in theory. But when you're using them as a tool to fight against state testing or a tool to fight against all the issues within the education system, that's not the point. The point was for SEL and mindfulness to help students realize themselves and recognize the place they're in and deal with social emotional issues. But you should also be trying to get rid of the systems to begin with that are causing set issues. So systemically, trying to find ways that teachers can go around these different problems, is very much needed. So let's dive into some specifics of ways that we can support students or some specific ways that we can fix these systems within our own classrooms. So something, Monty, that we've spoken about in the past is what happens inside your classroom for to to most extent, most people don't care about. And what I mean by that is is that if you allow for retakes in your class, you probably can get away with it for a pretty serious amount of time if you've built relationships with your students and they trust you and they go along with what you're saying. So outside of just a grade less learning, what are some other ways that you see to connect students together or tear down systems?

Speaker 2 Well, I just I think what we have well, I I don't think there's a simple answer, Chris. And I and I and I and I know that you you know that as well. And, you know, as I think about my own experiences and I think about, you know, you mentioned what goes on in our classrooms and and what we can and cannot get away with, and what we're willing to try, what we feel like we have to continue to honor even though it really stems from nothing substantial. I just think that we have to first, and it sounds maybe maybe silly to this group because I think everyone in this group practices this on a on a a daily basis, is we just first have to we have to consider kids and I think, know, you talked about dismantling systems a little bit or or circumventing them and going around them. And I think we we just have to not only consider kids, but we have to we have to walk our walk with kids. And I feel like, you know, when we when we do things like when we when we do mindfulness, when we bring yoga into the classroom, if you will, if we bring if we bring meditation into the classroom, even bringing smiles and frowns into the classroom as I do or or, you know, let's let's say the way to the way to do this is to is to talk about growth mindset with our kids and to make it a collective thing that we're doing in our buildings, we're doing in our districts. But I think where we fall short on all of those things, in particular with with disconnecting with kids or creating that disconnect, is that our our our talk doesn't match or our walks, excuse me, doesn't match our talk. You know, it's just like, okay, we're gonna do this because state testing is coming up and stuff like that. And the kids are like, oh, they care about me. We're doing all this mindfulness stuff. We're we're connecting. And then it's just like, oh, but by the way, we're still gonna stick to this. It's like we can't deliver on our promises half the time is is what is what I feel like. You know, we talk about we just recently in my building talked about growth mindset with kiddos. And, you know, I think you and I have even talked about this in the past. And it's like, I think I think we we are we perpetuate a fixed mindset in the k 12 system that begins from from the day the kids enter the enter the system and until they leave it. And so I I feel like we we talk a big game with it. You know, you you can't you can't be the teacher who says, hey, you have to have a growth mindset. You have to embrace your mistakes. You you can't fear failure. And then not have not have that, that not have our walk, match or talk when it comes to the next test. And like you're punishing and penalizing kids for making mistakes and not allowing retakes and doing these other things. And so for me, it's not necessarily coming up with the practice or a set of practices. It's about letting the the walls break down, if you will, between us and the kids, shooting them straight, being real, that probably wasn't a great way to say that, being real with kids, and then just making sure that whatever we're promising, we're we're delivering on that, you know. I I I think it goes back to this idea of like, most of us embrace relationships in the classroom and and and people have heard me talk about this before, and we we can't just be those icebreaker teachers, you know, because we have to consistently let kids know that they're the most important thing that we're working with each day, and and that's why I do smiles and frowns, you know, and and I think that initially kids thought that I was full of it, that, you know, we weren't gonna become a community, that, you know, we weren't gonna sit around and talk about these things or talk about each other,

Speaker 1 but I've stuck with it and I think it's had a it's it's had a huge impact. And anyway, I feel like I'm rambling right now, but I don't even know if I'm answering your question, Chris. No. No. I I I think that what you're talking about here about intentionally building relationships with students is a very valid point. And smiles and frowns are, in my classroom, we've transformed it to yeehaws and yee naws Awesome. Which is a much funnier terminology to me. Yeah. But the the idea that you are spending intentional time every single day solely focused on building relationships with students, not surrounding academia and not surrounding some ploy to get them to get something done. Yeah. Because I I feel like the traditional way of looking at student relationships is by building rapport, quote unquote, you're like, avoiding a discipline issue or going to have students achieve something in your class, which both of those things are definitely true. But if the way that you're walking into building rapport with students is so that your classroom runs better, I think you're kind of missing the point of being an educator. The the purpose of building the relationship is that you're building a relationship. There isn't a nefarious or side purpose to it. Right. At least not as its main objective. So, I think that part of the system that we're looking at here when we're trying to solve this problem is the fact that we have to be willing to say that we're not going to meet all the standards of our class. Because I don't know about you, but whenever you do something like smiles and frowns, which is where you're asking students, you know, something good, something bad that's happened recently and talking about it as a community, that takes a lot of time. Like that takes, I mean, sometimes twenty, thirty minutes. And if your class period is only forty five minutes long, you're going to, you know, not keep up with pace when it comes to the standards. So how do you balance the fact that you have these standards, you have this time that you know is set while still making sure that your community is being built or do you not worry about that at all?

Speaker 2 I I worry about it every day, you know. But for me, you know, it came down to this. If I'm gonna tell the kids that they're the most important thing in the room, then I have to daily show them that. Does that come at the cost of of coverage? Absolutely. I don't get through nearly as much content perhaps as is some of my my other colleagues. But again, that's that's going back to making sure that that walk, you know, matches that talk and, you know, so for the kids, every single day, not you know, it's non negotiable, no matter what we're doing, we sit down together and and we spend that time. That being said, some of my colleagues are reluctant to do it because they think it's a waste of time. And even if they do see well, and not even if they think it's a waste of time, they just don't think they can they can they can sacrifice the time, if you will. But for me, I I think it's it's the most important time I I spend each day. You know, I think about all the things that that I put in front of the kids and I think about all the things they're gonna forget more than they're going to carry with them in terms of the content that I'm teaching them. Just frankly because we just don't even if I didn't do smiles and frowns, that's the truth I believe. And that's been the truth for for the entirety of my career. And so for me it was just like, you know what, they're gonna take a few important things within this year, you know, the most important thing I hope they take with them is that they've learned something about themselves, they've learned something about their world, and they're carrying forth that. And if that can add some skills and and some content in there with with language arts, that's fantastic. But for me, you know, the balance is we we've got to give and take and I and I think giving to the humans in the room, there's nothing more important than that. So I I give the time, you know, Some days, we'll go for twelve or fifteen minutes with smiles and frowns depending on where the kids are and and what their needs are, and I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that when I'm being observed. I'm okay with that when I'm not being observed. You know, I have the principal and the superintendent's sons in my class this year. They know what I'm doing. They value what I'm doing. And and for me, that's that's that's all I need, you know, and and I don't even need that. You know, as I've said before, I'd I'd get fired for smiles and frowns. I'm never not going to do it again. It is a forever part of my classroom because we can't serve the humans in the room if we don't know the humans in the room. We have to bring the humans to us. And the only way we can do that is is to talk to them and communicate with them and connect with them on a daily basis. All the other stuff is extra as far as I'm concerned. And maybe I'm I'm gonna go to teacher hell for that. I don't know. But that's how I feel and that's that's that's the hill I'm willing to die on. Yeah. It's it's very interesting to note that.

Speaker 1 I wonder how much of our concern with teaching to the test or meeting all of our standards is actually backed up by what administrators actually want our school. Although it might be said at professional development events or, you know, at a meeting after school, as you just said, you know, you have a direct relationship with administration in your room right now and no one's, you know well, hopefully, no one's calling you into, like, some backroom and, saying you have to do this right now or else you're gonna get fired. Yeah. And I've had the exact same experience. I administrators praise what I do even though they know that I'm going against some of what they're saying when it comes to standards. And I'm curious if anyone that's in the session right now has a different experience with that. Because I imagine that it would be very stressful to know that someone's constantly kind of looming over your back and has specifically called you out for doing these types of things. In the same exact space too, I wonder if it would be be worth teaching there, which might sound a little little direct, but I'd be curious. Speaking of oh, wait. It it disappeared. I don't know, Kevin, if you were going to say something there, but your hand raised for a split second. Then when I went to click on it, it went away. But if you wanna speak, I'd be happy to invite you on. So Yeah. Hello, Kevin. How are you? Great. Good.

Speaker 3 Hey, Manny. Happy birthday. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Thank you, Kevin. Hey. Nice to finally hear your voice. Oh, it was your birthday. Happy birthday. Well, yesterday. So That's all. Yeah. It's bygones.

Speaker 3 Yeah. What you were saying about the the smiles and frowns and, you know, how how administration looks at it. I do pros and cons, same thing. And they like that. But the whole student centeredness and and all of that, they they talk about it. But my experience this year is that the our government test scores went down last year. So now lots of things have been dictated that I must do that I do not see student centered, anything like that. You know, I have to submit lesson plans. We have to do common assessments. They want they want everything pretty much locked in. And, you know, Mani, you were saying earlier, you were talking about talking the talk and walking the walk. Sure. We we do all the talking, we do none of the walking. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. You know, I I have this this fantasy book, you know, that's this kind of, you know, always circling around in my head. And it always begins with the with the line, they came for me at 03:00. Right? And and and and what I imagine in this in this fantasy world, and maybe, you know, as we're discovering Chris, it's it's in Kevin, it's it's not such a fantasy is that at some point, all this stuff that I'm I'm doing is is not going to be okay, you know, and the admin is going come for me and I'm going to have to support and defend all of the things that I'm doing, you know, and whether that ever comes to fruition or not, it's always in my head and maybe that's that imposter syndrome kind of, you know, seeping in a little bit. But as I think about those things, try to come up with my defense for why I'm doing things the way that I'm doing them. Know, I don't know, I just, part of me wants to have that happen, you know, back when I did the the a's for an entire year, I was hoping for more pushback so we could sit down at the table and have an honest open discussion about about grading. And I'm kind of feeling the same way now about the whole SEL thing. I think, you know, it's it's become kind of like the thing to do in most districts. I mean, least in our in our state, it's SEL seems to be a big deal and that's cool. But I don't know if we necessarily have the the conviction to commit to it as fully as we need to. I mean, I feel like we're we're doing we're doing kind of, you know, just drive throughs with it right now and and people talk of the game about, you know, student centeredness and connection and stuff like that. But yet when when push comes to shove, they set those things to the side and they they go back into the same old rut of we got to get kids ready for state testing yada yada yada.

Speaker 3 Yeah. That's the that's the easy out, I think. You know, you fall back on on what you've always known, what you've always done.

Speaker 2 When when you You're back to that edifice of Ed that I talked about, I think at the beginning and I don't know if you were there with this when I when I kind of shared my opening statement, it's like, we just seem to always think that, you know, we've got to go back to this this this thing. And I don't know why, you know, I I I mean, I do know why, but the longer I do these progressive kind of radical things, you will, the harder it is for me to just go back into that rut and routine and, you know, and it's been a hard year for me in in that respect.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I don't think they they they get admin in particular get that when they talk about these things, these aren't things you can do halfway. Right. You can't straddle that line. Like you're either in or you're out. Right. Right. And they want to try they try to want to be both and it just doesn't work that way.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So in that situation, I I think about, like Jonathan Kozel's work when it comes to that that concept of building the coalition, which is in a situation where the administration is not necessarily on board with the tactics, it falls back on the teacher, the parents, and the students to understand why your actions are important and why fighting this system is very important. And by building that coalition, you will have the necessary support to at least push back with some common cause. And I know that's that's easy for me to say, but very hard to put into practice coming from someone that's in a different location. But I find that it like, for example, when we became much more project based at our school, we were project based, but we weren't really project based. And when we switched to like two to three hours of instruction every single day doing PBL, that was a radical shift, a completely radical shift. And administration was not very happy about it, to be honest. They were very concerned with the amount of quote unquote free time that was occurring because what we don't often talk about with progressive education is, and it's kind of the exact same thing with the the concept of, like, building that community with middle school as Brian was talking about in chat, is not only does it take a lot of time to do these things, it takes a lot of time to do it very well. When you give a student three hours to work on something or you have students talk to each other with some inside one of these communities, it's not gonna go well the first time. It's gonna be, I mean, gross. You're gonna have arguments, you're gonna have a lot of wasted time like with kids like goofing off doing weird stuff. You're gonna have probably some weird behavioral things going on because students aren't used to it. And the only way that you learn to be responsible and to manage time and to think about what you're going to do is by practicing it. You can't just hear a lecture about it, you have to do it. Right. So of course, it's gonna be gross and it's gonna take a lot of time and that scares a lot of people away. So to me, finding that coalition of people that can back you, as well as finding ways that you can kind of just kind of pinch out it in your own room as far as you possibly can is the first step as well as contacting parents and students. And then I I guess in a more radical sense, it would be like, well, where is my coalition? Is it not here at all? Which case it's like, well, what what else what other options do you have? Monty, I don't know if you have anything to add to what I was just talking about there.

Speaker 2 No. No. Not really. I mean, I, you know, I agree I agree with you and it's just I don't know, man. You know?

Speaker 3 I would say It's it's really hard Yeah. For Go ahead. When you're just a single the single class, you know? If if there's not a group of people doing the same thing because the kids just get used to, at least in my school, if the teacher's not running the show, then it's recess. And when they only experience that one period out of six in a day, that and then it's easy to just blow off and and think, oh, we're just not doing anything in here. Yeah. You know, Chris, I think back to your earlier comment about time and, you know, I think about,

Speaker 2 you know, most of us, I think, well, maybe not all, but most of us in this in this group right now are probably secondary, either middle school or high school, maybe a few elementary. But, know, I think about we have to undo all that's been done to some degree. You know, I think about how the kids are conditioned to respond. And Kevin just made me think about when he says like when the teachers run on the show, I mean, that's that's what kids come to expect, you know, kids come to expect that we're just going to give them a grade that we're going to complete the transaction, you know, and so when we do things differently, it takes a long time, not only for it to for us to iron out the wrinkles, but for the kids to get accustomed to. And I'm and I think beyond even getting accustomed to coming to trust that we're really in it. We're, I mean, we're we're fully invested in this and like we believe in this and and and we're supporting this and, but then we get to a day a 179 and I feel like I finally have them and then school's out the next day. I mean, you know, and then they're just back to where they go and then five other periods out of their day, they're just doing the normal, what they've always done and that's what they expect from us. It can be hard and disheartening for those of us out here daring difference, if you will, Because, you know, not it's not only about not having that that internal, you know, close support system. It's just having the the endurance sometimes, you know, to see it through when we have all of these factors going against us. But, you know, we keep coming back, you know, I keep coming back, know, I this has been a hard year for me. This is the first year I've begun to think about like, maybe I just I can't do this anymore, and maybe it's time to get out of classroom, go do something else. It's just that noise from the outside, we're hot and heavy into PLC and common assessments right now. And even though I feel like our district pretty much walks the walk, I just feel like there's always that go back to the state testing and that's going to be what rules the day. And I just don't know if I can do it anymore sometimes.

Speaker 3 Right there with you. I mean, you've seen my issues throughout the year on Twitter for sure. And it is tough, I think a lot of it gets back to what you were talking about with the grading too. Like we can't constantly tell kids, know, failures how you learn, go out, try something new, all of that, and then screw them with Yeah. With a terrible grade. And that happens all the time.

Speaker 1 So I I I think it's really interesting to note too that, what we're diving into even though it's not necessarily, what's on the screen, which is I I think a lot of times when we look at social media and we talk about these things, we get the interpretation that it's all very easy and that someone just like flicks a switch and all of a sudden like your grade list, okay, everything's great now and these teachers doing some amazing stuff. Yeah. And especially in like September, October, November, those first few months of school, it's draining and hard and depressing, honestly. Like there are a lot of days where I come home like, my god, like what am I doing at school? Because these things that we're trying to solve are not only not quick fixes, they are systemic problems that are very like, we're just making like the smallest little inch into solving that problem on our own, which is a needed inch, but it's not going to solve the problem in its entirety. And I and I I make the point to think that even by making that small little inch is worthwhile for the student because not only does it impact them, it impacts potentially other teachers or building administrators who see what you're doing and then they can make their own little contribution towards solving that problem. And it's it's a really scary thing to think of it that way, but it's kind of what keeps me going. Otherwise, I would just be out. I mean, the whole reason why I shifted progressive education in the first place was that I was disillusioned with the education system. Mhmm. It's the only way that I can balance out the fact that what I'm doing on paper doesn't necessarily align with my viewpoints. Well, the way that I solve that is I start rewriting the paper or work in a different sheet of paper, and hope that that works. Alright. So I got Nick here.

Speaker 4 Let me pull Nick up. I'll unmute Nick. Hello Nick. Hey Chris, am I up? Yep. You are up. Awesome. Excellent. Mani, how are you doing? I'm well Nick. Thanks. Good. Good. I'm I'm kinda glad I'm not on the video right now, so that's nice. But I was just thinking about the this whole conversation, you know, about about culture and, you know, those risks that we take as teachers. And and, Monty, I understand, like, your your your My Room message, you know. And I it's it's really interesting just to see in the last few years how, you know, like, the number of of of your followers have grown and the number of people sharing those messages. So at a certain point, you would think it would be less about my room, you know, and more about our schools. But I I I don't think that that shift has happened. And and and kind of to get what I was talking about to some folks in the chat here, one of the things that I still see, I tried, the community circles to kinda take a step towards that this semester, and kids were really resistant to it because of the culture that is more about competitiveness. It's more it where kids don't see the value of working together and collaborating because by the point that I have kids as seniors, they don't they're so stratified, not just, you know, in in terms of education achievement or, like, future goals or whatever, but it trickles into that social identity. And and kids internalize those messages when when the systems talk the talk, but we don't walk the walk. So I I I just wanted to say, like, if we if we value coverage more than collaboration, then kids are gonna see that as their path to success. And every single year, if they're gonna get further and further away from that, it's gonna be more difficult to bring to bring them back to that idea that collaboration is the path to success. And I I just think from an adult perspective, we need to do a better job, not just as teachers, but as just adults in in communities. And it's it's really maybe that message of of humanizing again that the value of the curriculum is so limited outside the scope of school, but what's gonna carry you into success into adulthood and in the future are gonna be those social connections that you make, you know, to the community, to each other. You're gonna go further together than any, you know, a on a test or anything else is gonna is gonna is gonna do. So, yeah, I just I I was just thinking about that. I thought maybe it just just saying it would get it all out there all at once rather than taking up too much space in chat.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah. Whose turn is it? Go ahead. Go ahead. I'll be done. I I mean, I I I mean, I agree with you wholeheartedly, Nick. And and again, I just think, you know, you mentioned that that, you know, you have seniors and by the time, know, you I have sophomores and again, by the time they get to us, they're so they've been so conditioned to expect, you know, that school is gonna be what it's been. And so when those of us who who try to make changes, you know, it's just it doesn't always go well with kids. But, but I, but I will say this guys, I think, and again, cheap plug for smiles and browns here. And, and I, and I, you know, maybe, maybe it's not the cure all, but I hope it is, but this is my fourth year of doing this now. And I feel like the longer I have done things like Smiles and Browns, Community Circle, and and and and created those classroom connections, the more buy in I get from kids for doing some of the the the non mainstream things in terms of grading, learning and other things. And I and I think the reason for that is is because of that daily connection, they've come to trust me. But I think they've also come to look at their peers differently. And I think that they have developed a sense of empathy that I think is never really happened for them before. Maybe in elementary, maybe I'm not sure, you know, But by and large, they just continue to go through the system and and again, it becomes about this isolated, you know, thing for each kid. And the only time it goes outside of them is when it becomes a competition on who did what on the test, who has the better grade, who's getting treated more fairly or unfairly by the teacher. And so it's not about this we, it's I, and then the only, you know, we becomes that competitive piece. And I think those of us who are involved in this more progressive movement have come to discover that it is, exceeds competition. It's about collaboration, it's about empathy, it's about, you know, humanity and just coming together. But I think we have to create those connections. You know, we just did recently did an activity that I've changed. I used to call it choose a champ, but I changed it to to kindness cards. And I have kids writing kind messages to other kids that they have never talked to in their entire lives. And I think without that opportunity, you know, that they have had to to build some some some community and culture through Smiles and Browns, they never would have they never would have done it. They wouldn't have cared about the girl who sits across the room that they never talked to, but now those kids are making those connections. And I'm not I'm not I'm not doing I'm not sharing this to pat myself on the back. I'm, I am sharing it because it's evidence I believe that when we intentionally create systems in our classroom for kids to become connected, pretty cool things can happen. You know, I've shared with some of you via via Twitter that my third and fifth period kids from last year after Smiles and Prouds created their own Instagram group for Smiles and Prouds so they could carry that on throughout the summer. They're still doing it this year, even though they've gone on in their juniors. And so I just think we underestimate the power of human connection. And I think that when we underestimate it, we're afraid to give it a try because we think either it's not going to work. And this is going back to where Chris is talking about things just take time for them to come to fruition. And so I have found, I'll cut to the chase here really quickly, but I have found that the more connected I am with my kids, the easier it is for us to do the more radical things outside of the of the confines of of traditional education.

Speaker 1 And it's interesting to note too that that it was brought up earlier, this idea of developing a reputation kind of precedes yourself. Like, as in if you start these trends, even if it's with a different group of students, by the time the next group of students gets to you, they kinda know what to expect because they hear it down the grapevine. And that makes it easier for you to get away with some quote unquote weirder things. Right. Right. And I I think that helps a lot too with building connections before they even get into the room. Like one thing that is huge at my school is is that I teach in like Trump country. It's a very conservative area. So by being very intentional about talking about things like like LGBTQIA plus rights or about, like, seeing oneself in the curriculum, which is something that probably hasn't happened for the last ten years. Some of these students have been in school. That makes a huge difference. It's not because I'm trying to, like like, I don't know, like, co opt the curriculum in order to, like, get these kids high standardized test scores, it's because I think it's a disservice to anyone to not see themselves inside the curriculum. So it's a win win for everyone. You are making more connections with students. Test scores will probably go up because they actually care more. And you have just this intentional motivational connection. Something that you were talking about earlier, which I think is a a really important point is, what is the purpose of one's class? Is it test scores or what is the other thing? And in my opinion, it's motivation, intrinsic motivation. As in, it content wise, what I want students to walk out of the room knowing is that they were valued, but primarily from a content perspective that they think it's interesting. That some students will take that information and then pursue it more in the future. Because I think most people learn way more outside of the classroom than they do inside the classroom. My goal is to go, this is a thing that's out there. If it's cool, then you can figure it out on your own or pursue it in the future or connect to something that you care about. But my goal is not to teach you every single little semantic about this content so that you can regurgitate it. My goal is to teach you twenty, thirty, 40% of what I have so that way you're inspired enough to continue on with it and you'll care about learning it. I think it's really interesting too inside the chat. Katie's in chat who is a administrator who has this a different perspective about what we're talking about. Changing the narrative, I I think is a really key point, which is figuring out what is the purpose of school, what is the purpose of our classroom, and and making those connections probably should be at the forefront. Yeah. Yeah. So let's build into then more of these ways about systemically changing things. And I I like to try to figure out ways that even though we're a small group and even though it's hard to do this, trying to figure out ways where we can recommend options for teachers to explore, even if they're very hard things to do. Because it's very easy for us, especially in November, to get into like the whole, and everything sucks, let's try to fix things, like the world's collapsing in on myself. But there are ways that we can at least find a beacon of light, on the on the horizon that can at least attempt to remedy these issues. Monty, do you have any suggestions for people that are systemic things they could do to their class, even small activities that could start to make this change in narrative in the education system?

Speaker 2 Oh, boy. You know That's a this is just a small question for you. Yeah. Wasn't on the It wasn't on You know, this this is where I have this is where I have a a little bit of a hard time. You know, Chris, is where that that philosophical becomes the practical, right? And and how do I just hand this off, you know, to another teacher and and allow him or her them to just, you know, run with it. And and I think that that's I think that's really hard to do, you know. And for me, I think it's a bigger consideration, you know. I have shared with folks via my blog and some other places. If we I think if we want to, if we want to systemically change our classroom to our schools, we have to start with the thing that makes us most human and that is our feelings. And I know that that sounds Kumbaya, I know that sounds like, you know, out of touch liberal blah blah blah blah blah, whatever. But but that's not what I intended to mean at all. Know, I think that if we want people to feel that there is value in human connection, then we have to meet them where they are. And I think that that means meeting them and their feelings. I'm not talking about meeting them academically. I'm talking about meeting them where they are socially and emotionally with their being, you know. Earlier to earlier this morning, I had an you know, about, you know, a school a school system. And when I think about our school system, when I think about them checking on students, I think about them coming around and asking them in an observation, what are you learning? You know, what is the learning target for the day? And that's what we seem to place importance on. And, you know, I had an this morning, it's like, don't we ask kids instead, how are you feeling in this class? How is your stress level in this class versus like, what is the learning target in this class? And, and for me, I would love to see administrators approach it from, from that point of view. And then I thought further, like, why would that be such a hard question to ask? And the more I thought about it, I think it's a sticky question because what if a kid says, you know what, I feel disrespected in this class, or I don't feel supported in this class, or I feel lost in this class. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. But that to me is a more important question than can you recite the learning target that your teacher wrote on the board because he or she's having an observation today, you know? And so I think it has to go back to how we want people to feel in our classroom and then we have to make all the decisions from there. I want kids to feel connected to my classroom. If I'm going to do that, then I have to walk the walk and that's why I do smiles and frowns. I want kids to feel empowered in my classroom. And so that's why I do select and support grading and do a feedback only classroom because I want to empower them to be part of their learning stories. So when I think about giving advice to other teachers about what they can do to systemically change or challenge or move their own classrooms, is they first have to start with how do you want people to feel? Because it has to be about the people. If it's not about the people, then I don't think you're really going to arrive at any significant place with the work that you're doing. And and I think that that can be expanded out to an entire building. I think principals should ask or have their staff ask, how do we want kids to feel in this building? And then let's build our plan around that and that and let that hold not only us accountable, but also let it create those connections with kids that this is our shared agreement, this is our shared responsibility. And I'm not talking about a mission statement, I am talking about really wondering about how the people in the room feel, how the people in the building feel, about how people in the system feel. And I know that sounds I know that sounds Kumbaya, but I don't know how we move forward with doing anything substantially more effective or differently, more effectively or differently if we don't first start there. I feel like it's just more of the same and it's just spinning the cycle as we've always done. And and I think that that's why we just continue to come back to the same places in education, never really get too far and now I'm off my soapbox.

Speaker 1 Well, I I think that point of establishing emotional connections first is a really key point. And in order to make that happen, I think it's really important that a teacher is very honest and transparent about what's going on. So in the case where the teacher is forced to do something or else face being fired, for example, state test prep, letting the students know that to a certain extent, I think is valuable as in letting students know like, hey, you have to take the state test. I have no control over it. I don't like it. I don't think it ranks you out well. I don't think it has any purpose. But just know that I have to do this to keep my job. It's part of the point. And when you build that coalition with your students, they know it too. It's kinda like the exact same thing. Like, if you have a good relationship with your students and they know you're being observed by someone, they're going to be extra good in that observation. I think it's telling me that. This year, I I am getting like a special certification. I have people from the local university coming down observing me. And I had a student who normally is a little, not not a bad student by any stretch, but I get a little bit loud, who who literally said, I'm not gonna be loud today. Someone's watching us today. I was like, I wish you would be less loud less often, but that's okay. I'm I'm glad the fact that you, are going along with the fact that you recognize the importance of what's going on and you understand how to play in the system when necessary. Because as bad as this sounds to say, there is a great value in understanding when you have to go along with what's going on versus when you need to revolt. Because the one of the quintessential skills of someone who's going to be a revolutionary is you can't just go against every single thing that pops up. You have to know when to go against it and when not to go against it and walk that fine line. Something else I wanted to say too, which is inside chat, I was noticing a point about, you know, how much structure students need. And I teach ninth grade and what it means to be student centered and support these different systems. And essentially, I think it's important that when we're talking about progressive education and systemic change, we understand that student centered does not mean that you no longer can do anything teacher centric within your classroom. It's very dangerous to deal with absolutes, as the Sith would say, in any case. So I I see this as a point like with restorative justice. One way that you can build connections with students is if a student does something wrong, do not send them down to the office the first time. Because if you send them out of the office, you lost any chance for rapport. However, that does not mean that no matter what a student does, they should never go down to the office for something. If you have a student you have to use your own judgment. It's complex. If a student comes up and does something really bad, like, this has happened before, a student says the n word in class, That's probably not a good time to just have like, oh, you know, we should probably rethink about how we say that. That's probably something that should be taken seriously. So understanding when progressive systems are in play versus when there are some systems that have been done a certain way for a long time that do work need to come into play. And that's kinda up to you and your own classroom environment and the culture of the building and all of these different rural things because teaching is hard. If we want respect as teachers, we have to recognize the fact that teaching is incredibly abstract and difficult. There's no easy silver bullet or one strategy that always works. We just have to have the mindset, which is what you're talking about, Monty. Alright. So that kind of pulls us into probably a a a final question here. I don't know if anyone else has anything they wanna add. I I would like more questions if possible from the audience. Dana, the recording will be available online on YouTube as well as our podcast and will be posted on our social media pretty soon after probably a couple hours after we wrap up here.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I wish somebody would ask a question or two. Maybe they have. I I cannot keep up with the chat and this. And so I'm sorry if I'm if I seem like I'm a little woo because I can't make my way back and forth. But are there any questions as we wrap up? That's that's what I would like to So I will speak to something, which I think is a a question that I would ask inside this conversation,

Speaker 1 which is a very blunt question, but I think one that's needed, which is, Monty, why should we continue doing this job if things are so difficult and so hard and there's so much doom and gloom when it comes to these kind of topics? Cause it's hard.

Speaker 2 Wow. That's an easy question, Chris. Thanks. I mean, I I I wanna give the, you know, it's for the kids and it is, you know, because I think somebody has to make our society better. And I think teachers have to have to be that support system, you know. And and and, you know, I just I just think that there's so many parts of our of our life out there inside and outside of school that can be better. You know, I believe in public education. If not for public education, I wouldn't be where I am right now. I believe in the promise of public education. I don't necessarily believe in the Institute of Public Education as it now is because I think it can be better. But I I think we do the most I mean, again, I feel like I'm just throwing cliches out here. I think we do the most important work of of anyone and everyone. Mhmm. And I just think we have to continue to do it. I think the fact that we're here this morning tells us we know we have to continue to do it despite how hard it is sometimes. And I just I just hope, you know, I just hope Chris, that by having these kinds of chats is clunky and as cluttered as they might be, we come to discover that you know what, there are so many of us out here fighting the good fight, so many of us out here who believe in better, who dare different. You know, I I was talking to my wife this morning and and she asked me like, what what do you hope to get out of this stuff? I mean, like, what what do you hope to get out of today? Right? And and I, you know, she's a teacher too. She's an art teacher, maybe the best teacher I know. And and I just told her, know what, hon, I I just hope at the end of the day, that I can inspire people to to dare different and and chase their own betters and not just to settle for for what's been because it's what's been that there is a better out there for our kids. I think we're all here because we're kids centered, you know, and I think that we believe at least I believe and I think most of us do that I am defined by the kids. And so when I say student centered, I am defined by the kids because if I don't center on the kids, I'm not really sure what it is that I'm doing. And as long as I think we keep doing that, we will find that energy to sustain us and and that that that belief that we can make a difference. And damn it, I I think we are every single day.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah. I'm completely with you. I I I think that a lot of this too is in kind of a a self centered approach, which is discovering one's purpose. I think the reason why most people become teachers is because they feel an innate connection to making the world a better place, which is it's I mean, that's very kinda dorky, I guess to say. But there's a reason why teachers are willing to go through many years of school, not get paid very much, not really have a lot of respect in some circles, but yet continue to do this job day in and day out. And those that put a lot of purpose into their work are also sadly the ones that tend to leave the profession early on Yeah. Because it is really difficult to do. But what kind of keeps me going is recognizing those little blips of, wow, a student did this, like that Instagram story that you said. Or, like in my case, I my win for, last week or the week before was a project that we've been working on, which is entrepreneurship and social ventures and all these different things. A group of students who are raising money for sustainability while operating our new school coffee shop had an investor give them a thousand dollars. Like, not giving them the space for that. Like, in a normal class, I would just be like, oh, you got an a on the test. But the fact that you have like a legitimate thing that you did that could impact you for a long period of time, giving those little blips and seeing those little blips keeps me going. Yeah. Alright. So I think that actually is a, probably a pretty good stopping point. If you ever have any questions or want advice or want us to point you to something that we have, feel free to email. I'm sure either one of us. My email is chris@humanrestorationproject.org. Monty, yours is montysiri@gmail.com.

Speaker 2 Right? Sure. Yes, sir. So

Speaker 1 feel free to reach out or, you know, get involved in our different PLNs and so it's not not just a one on one conversations. I certainly don't have all the answers. But reach out and ask for help. That to me is a a huge part of connecting and well-being as teachers recognizing that it's okay to not have all the right answers because none of us do. I often tell that to the students that you have to self advocate and, you know, you have to build upon these skills of asking for help. But then again, I'm not always the best at asking for help. In terms of walking the walk, we also have to be better at connecting to one another Yeah. And looking for assistance. Okay. Cool. I will post this soon. Monty, thank you so much for joining us and I hope everyone has a great day. Okay. Alright. Take care everyone.