Part 2 of 3: Pedagogy in the Hawaiian Islands

Speaker 1 Aloha, and welcome to episode two in a three part series on pedagogy in the Hawaiian Islands. My name is Noah Randsland, and I'm a student from the University of Massachusetts Amherst interning here at the Human Restoration Project. Before we get started, I wanted to let you know that this is brought to you by our supporters, three of whom are John O'Brien, Keith Mathias, and Trevor Oleo. Mahalo Nui for your ongoing support. You can learn more about the Human Restoration Project on our website, humanrestorationproject.org, or find us on X, Instagram, or YouTube. In this episode, we delve into the research of Doctor. Stacy Potess and her place based pedagogical framework for Hawaiian youth. Stacy Potess, PhD, is an assistant professor at the University of Hawaii at Manoa College of Education and Secondary Mathematics. Doctor. Potess currently teaches undergraduate and graduate courses in teacher preparation, including secondary mathematics models and multicultural education. Previously, she worked as a mathematics lecturer at the University of Hawaii, West Oahu, for five years and as a secondary mathematics teacher for thirteen years in the Department of Education. She focuses on contextualizing mathematics education by incorporating mathematics, culture, and sustainability. Her research is rooted in Hawaii and influenced development of a framework that includes place conscious pedagogy, culturally responsive pedagogy, and critical ethno mathematics pedagogy. Hi, doctor Potas. Thank you for joining me today. Hey. Thanks for having me. Your dissertation that you did in ethnomathematics, I read it, it's super interesting. And I wanna know, first off, what motivated you to go into pedagogy and ethnomathematics

Speaker 2 as your area of academic interest? Yeah. Thanks for reading it. So I was born and raised in Hawaii, and I spent a lot of time near the ocean growing up. And my dad was a fisherman, so I spent hours at a time at the beach. And, I can remember spending time in the tide pools, and I was so fascinated by everything. But it wasn't until later in life I realized just how much I learned by just being there, simply observing, you know, wind direction, tide changes, all of that just by just being there. And so there's this or a Hawaiian proverb that clearly speaks to that, and it goes Observe with the eyes, listen with the ears, and shut the mouth. And so that was kind of my childhood. But when I went to school, learning was very different for me. And so, I don't know if you've seen the if you guys have seen the movie Moana, but she had, like, this very strong pull towards the ocean. Right? And I think it's very common for islanders to also be very just drawn towards the ocean, and I also felt that. But when I was in school, I can really remember high school specifically, I remember always trying to choose the window seat, and I would just stare out the window and look at all the elements outside. And especially in math class, I I feel like math class is a lot about memorization and procedures for me. And so I just would think to myself, why can't we be studying math outside? Look at all the things that are happening. And I would actually be making predictions about what the waves look like that day instead of really focusing on the math that I was supposed to be supposed to be focusing on. So, also, later, I taught mathematics for thirteen years at a public high school. And for the majority of those thirteen years, I could really say that I was just consumed by state test scores and standards. And, it really wasn't until my last two years teaching that in high school that I realized that. And in those last two years, I volunteered to teach this class called modeling our world. And that class has just came out. And the typical student in that class just didn't like math. Some of those students had previously failed math, and some of those students just needed a a last credit just to graduate. And so I I took that as an opportunity. I thought to myself, what is the best way to teach this class, in a way that students can benefit? And so my entire curriculum was based on projects. We did projects every quarter. Projects like, car loans, building a city, shark tank, designing, selling t shirts. And I've never had so many students in my class, during lunch and after school. And one student even came back the following year, and she said, my car broke down. My mom took me to the dealership, and guess what? I brought my car loan project to the dealership, and I was completely just blown away. For me, this was learning, and this was the point of no return, in terms of how I taught mathematics. And so, as that was happening, you know, that pull towards the ocean continued, sparked my interest in sustainability, and at the same time, bits and pieces, I was learning about the overthrow of the Hawaiian kingdom in 1893. And I was just shocked and in disbelief about things that I had no idea about and and happened to a place where I lived my entire life. And, and at the same time, was starting to notice with that, like, the beaches that I was growing up on were starting to really change. And so, I realized that all these topics, you know, mathematics, culture, sustainability, they were all very much related. And so, this is where my interest in pedagogy and ethnomathematics stemmed from. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Great. And so in your dissertation, you sort of describe this AINA based framework, and you you highlight three core elements of it. There's this, you know, little triangle, and, you know, you have all these elements. And so the three the three elements that I wanna I wanna talk about are this this place consciousness, cultural responsiveness, and this idea of critical ethnomathematics. And so could you describe what those are and explain how they sort of fit together into one cohesive framework. Right. Yeah. So if you can visualize what you're explaining kind of in a triangle,

Speaker 2 the three components are situated in, like, a little kahi symbol in balance, in harmony, all all trying to work together with each other. And, the epistemology behind the framework is sort of based on three theories. So social cultural learning theory, cultural capital theory, and critical theory. And so, really, like, what counts as knowledge in math education? It plays a central on social cultural perspectives with roots in Vygotsky's theory of learning. And it's based on the idea that the learner's environment plays a pivotal role in his or her learning development. And in other words, learning's a social process. And then culture capital theory, Burdou's, by Pierre Burdou, states that math is historically refined through social structures that privilege certain groups. And so learners engage in this activity with a habitus, and it's shaped by their socialization within the family, their home, and immediate environment. And this shapes the way they act and interpret their world. So consequently, academic success for students is in part shaped by how well their habitus is aligned to the habitus that's expected in schools. And then, lastly, critical theory. Right? It draws from Paulo Freire's problem posing pedagogy where, students develop the power to perceive critically the way they exist in the world, and that's opposed to depositing information into students and what he calls the banking education process. And so he also seeks to rehumanize education, where students become agents of curiosity, agents of change. And so the idea of these three kind of theories, together developed the start of this framework. And so the three components within the framework are, there's Hawaiian phrases that I I I use to kind of name them, and there's and So we'll start with that component. Right? And that's where place conscious pedagogy comes into play. And pilina is loosely defined as an association, relationship, a connection. And so, in this particular framework, pilina refers to connection between teacher and student, connection with the environment, and connection to one's community. And so that's where place conscious education really comes into play, where students get to explore the place where their school is situated in, get to understand the places that each of them come from, and really get engaged with that and bring it into the classroom. And so they develop this sense of belonging and sense of Hawaii while they're in that process. Right? And then that leads to the second component, which is kuleana. And kuleana is speaking of, like, values, responsibility. And once students gain that connection through that peeling up component, they can start to understand understand the the values values and responsibilities that they hold. But they can't get there yet if they're not yet connected. Right? And so this is where culturally responsive education comes from, Really trying to you you really can't talk about place, I think, without talking about culture because they go hand in hand with each other. But once students start to really understand their kuleana for certain places, then and only then will they be able to act upon it. Right? They can make choices. They can speak up for these certain places. And so that's where the last component, Pono, comes into play. And pono is a very vast there there's a very large definition, but, really, it's like righteousness, uprightness, moral, correct. Right? And so maintaining balance with these relationships and connections built on values, responsibility, connection requires living with that conscious decision to do right. So that's where critical ethnomathematics comes into play where once they go through all of this, they're learning mathematics, they begin to see it as a tool. Now how can I use this math to really, contribute to the community where I'm from, make contributions to any kind of issues that are going on, within the world? So those are the three components in that framework that kind of work together, but also, are individually very, very heavy, but not meant to be separated from each other. There are this framework is also based on and is a framework that is has been, put out into this DOE Department of Education school system in 2015. And it really reflects Maka Hanaka Ike, so in doing one learns. And it's based on these six core values of sense of belonging, responsibility, excellence, aloha, total well-being, and Hawaii. And so all of that kinda working in collaboration with the framework is

Speaker 1 is what, is intended behind the framework. It's interesting to me that you use the term tool to describe math. So so a little bit about me. I'm a I'm actually a math major, and I definitely have sort of developed in this, I think, maybe more western centered idea of what mathematics is. But particularly from the perspective of viewing math as something valuable in and of itself, like philosophy, viewing math more from a right? From, like, a philosophical framework than from a, you know, tool based framework or a, you know, a a usefulness. And something that struck me in reading about critical Hawaiian pedagogy is that that understanding of math specifically, but in general, the sort of culture of academics, I don't wanna say is rejected necessarily, but it's certainly not emphasized. So I'm curious from my perspective as someone who thinks that math should be taught not just on its own, but certainly to some degree as something to be studied for its own sake. I'm curious if you think that there's any room in your framework for math to be valuable in and of itself or only really as a tool to explore more culturally or personally relevant topics.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So well, in terms of math, and if you think of a math student in the classroom, I think that every student, indigenous or not, local or not, Hawaiian or not, all have a kuleana behind why they're in that certain classroom, why they're in they're located in that certain space. Right? And I think when we're we're in in the classroom, oftentimes, it's really easy to really just forget about about just simply that. Why are we here to why are we teaching these students math? Why is this student here in this math class? And I think if we can situate math in terms of what is real for them in terms of the context behind the math, right, then then they're not gonna you won't hear that question anymore. Like, how am I gonna use this in real life? That's a question that is often wondered in math classes by students. Right? And and that will be no longer because it will already be real life. They're already be, applying it in within the framework. And so math in terms of, like, a western context, right, is a lot of memorization, following the formula, and just procedure over and over and over. And for some, that might be okay, but I think in the world in which we live in now, there's a lot of you know, AI is taking over. AI has there's a lot of play in education right now too. Right? And so we really need critical thinkers. And if we just have our students in terms of math, memorize, memorize, memorize, then they're gonna lose that critical part, and we want to humanize them. Right? We want to see them as humans being able to think for themselves and apply the math. And so when they get out into the workforce, they're not just another robot spitting out information. They're able to adjust, adapt to situations, and and they're they'll be seen as more valuable. And so the math, I think there's this probably a small percentage of students that was that will be, like, math majors, right, or mathematicians. And so I think, teaching to a framework in terms of context and being able to relate it to the students, I think, will be a way a more universal approach to teach for all students. So

Speaker 1 yeah. Yeah. That's super interesting. Yeah. For sure. I mean, I definitely see that because, you know, I'm I'm weird, and the fact that I like math is probably a little weird, for a lot of people. But, yeah, I definitely see that for the majority of students, they're not gonna think about math the way that I do, or the way that, you know, someone who wants to go into math does. And I definitely see the necessity for your average student who just needs to learn the math that they need to learn, you know, to do the things that they need to do and work the jobs that they need to do that they still need to have a framework for understanding it that allows them to find themselves in it. I really do see that. Yeah. Because I think that's even in the under the best of circumstances, I don't necessarily think there's gonna be a lot of people who find that that passion in math. And so sort of moving on from that, in what areas do you see you know, focusing on the specific problems in Hawaiian education, in what areas do you see native Hawaiian youth falling behind in school, and how does this framework that you've constructed address those discrepancies?

Speaker 2 Yeah. So that's, I guess, kinda related right to the previous question in in terms of context. But according to the US census, Hawaii has the highest diversity index rate at 76%. And so that just say that, you know, education should be a little bit different in terms of who we're teaching to. So, also, along with that, Hawaii's math scores are consistently below average, below that proficiency mark. And so it's even it's even lower for indigenous or Pacific communities. Native Hawaiian students, in particular, along with Pacific Islander students, are among the lowest performing groups. And so if we if we understand that indigenous people carry this deep and intimate connection to place, I mean, it's evident in place names in Hawaii. If you look into place names in Hawaii, there's or stories that are connected to all of the places, and they're passed down from generation to generation. It really is a a map or a guide that, really helps people get back to their roots. And, also, if you in Hawaii, a common question if you meet someone, and I know you probably heard this, Noah, coming to Hawaii is, where are you from? What school did you graduate from? Right? That's a common question when you first meet someone in Hawaii. Why is that? Well, that's because people feel more comfortable when they're connected to, places and people that are from the same area, and they really value and they're proud of where they come from. And that's that building pilina part. Right? And so in the classroom, it's no different. Say you have a student that you find out is interested in diving. It like it likes to dive. The student likes to dive. If you ask a student who likes to dive about that, you would be blown away at the amount of knowledge that can come from these students. And so I think, inviting that knowledge into the classroom takes away all of the anxiety in the in the math class and the stigma that I'm I'm no good at math. I'm just not a math person. Right? All of those negative identities, that's associated with math can kind of, be broken down a little bit because students now have a voice in the class. Students cannot participate in the mathematical discussions. They have something to contribute, because there's a lot of math. If you think about diving, there's a lot of math in all of these students' interest. And so it's putting math into that cultural context that allows all students to participate, right, all the voices to be valued in the classroom. So I think the framework does just that. It helps those students to intersect their knowledge that they have already with new mathematical knowledge and then put it together into action. And so when math becomes more contextualized, they're more engaged, they're more invested, and they realize how much they can really do in math. And I think, you know, those issues, those problems with test scores and, being below the proficiency mark, I think if we kinda focus more on the student, then those those scores will come in terms of, math.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Do you think that this this framework and this and this connection you know, you you talk a little bit about standardized test testing. And I and I think in general, you know, there's potentially value in that, but I think that in general, I and a lot of other people interested in progressive pedagogy would argue that that and especially in the context like Hawaii where there is such a, you know, deep rooted history of subjugation. You know, do you think that that your framework points to and necessitates more fundamental structural changes in how education is done in Hawaii?

Speaker 2 I hope so. I I really do hope so. In terms of, like, how Hawaii is constantly, I think, going through struggles with land use or water use. And students are constantly battling outside of school as well with a lot of, you know, so so social emotional issues. And, I think that, this framework will help that and will help to kind of give them that opportunity to look at their education a little bit in terms of a different light and to see that, you know, it is it is something that they'll be able to use outside of the classroom. And, a lot of the issues that are going on around them are are very much related and very much something that they don't have to have a hands on approach to. Right? They can they can place themselves in it, and they can, in fact, contribute to what's going on. Awesome. I think that answered your question. I'm not sure. Yeah. No. Definitely. And I'm curious.

Speaker 1 Do you have you seen or have you started to, like, do any work yet on implementing this framework, in schools in Hawaii or otherwise?

Speaker 2 Yeah. So, actually, I did a study on undergraduate students. There's 126 undergraduate students, and I, tested academic achievement and student motivation. And so, implementing this framework, what I found was that at the end, the average math score or the average grade was an 89.9 with a standard deviation of 10.16. And so that's great. Right? That's that's huge. When you look more closely at that number, the maximum grade received was a 100%, but the minimum grade was a 36.14%. It's a really low grade, and this person, of course, didn't pass the class. Right? So this is an undergraduate course. They need a 70% in the class to move on to the next math course or to get credit. And so I looked a little bit more closely at those students who didn't pass, and what I found was just amazing, mind blowing. So when I looked closely at these all these students who got the 70% or below, I looked at the comments that they left, in regards to the class. And it turns out that although they didn't pass, they have to take the class again. They didn't receive credit. They all left positive remarks. All of the comments were positive. In fact, one person and this is the person that scored the lowest at 36.14%. This person says, I enjoyed the class. I like the connection of math to real issues, and I've become more attentive to the environment. Another person that didn't pass said, math was never appealing to me. The way the course incorporate Hawaiian culture and ecological ecological preservation into the curriculum made it so much more enjoyable. So for me, in even though these students didn't pass the course, they still come out they still come out of this course successfully. They're still coming out with being able to apply the math to be able to see the connections. And so for me, this was very much a a success success. And, in terms of motivation, motivation was also measured quantitatively, and that was very similar to the average grade within at an 89.8%. So students were equally motivated in terms of their academic success. So I I hope to do more studies on this, you know, with a different population. This was done on, undergraduate statistics students. And I hope to do more more projects like this perhaps in the high school level, with different a variety of classes. Right? Not just statistics, but algebra one, geometry, and all those different content topics in the high school level as well.

Speaker 1 Awesome. Yeah. And I've definitely noticed sort of going off of what you were saying, I've definitely noticed at least people my age, you know, younger well, mid to younger Gen z people. I've definitely noticed that there's this really strong pushback against sort of cultural hegemony. Right? I feel like there's a lot of people now my age who are trying to sort of carve out and I'm sure this has always been true, but I I've really seen this a lot now, that there are students who who are pushing back against the sort of, like, hegemonizing forces of, you know, the society we live in and carving out their identities for themselves and reclaiming their identities. Do you see your framework as responding to that, or do you see it as as a framework that intends to sort of promote that?

Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, I think the framework is very inviting and very, yeah. I mean, it does it does help in in terms of, like, student identity is is huge. Right? And students are now in the in the phases where they wanna speak out. They're becoming more attentive to who they are, to where they come from. And I think the framework allows for that, allows for including everybody into into the classroom. And so when I think students can bring that into the classroom, the learning only becomes more powerful. I think we continue if we butt heads, you know, with individuals, then there's there's always gonna be that wall up in terms of how in terms of the learning. Right? So I definitely think that the framework is inclusive for everybody and for for that kind of idea that identities are now being brought to the forefront of students, and they're speaking out about it. So I love that. I love that everybody can be open and and be who they are in the classroom. I love that. And so sort of moving past

Speaker 1 the Hawaiian context, where do you see educators outside of that context, able to to use this framework that you've created? You know, how how how do you imagine it could be sort of retweaked and reworked for a variety of different context?

Speaker 2 Yeah. So one thing actually I noticed in in the framework when I was stud doing a study is that there are actually students who, you know, were not from Hawaii that kind of was, like, you know, a little bit unfamiliar with these Hawaiian terms that I am using within the framework or in the class. But at first, they're uncomfortable, but I think when we start to talk really about place, that's universal for everybody. Right? That that everybody can relate to place. Everybody's breathing the same air. We're all surrounded by the same ocean here in Hawaii, and and that's common for everybody to for and grounds for everybody to speak about. So in non native Hawaiian classroom context, I think the framework's focus on place conscious education is really a starting point. So in a sense, the framework can be applied to all classrooms, not just classrooms in Hawaii. And, really, the framework's not meant to be, like, a step by step manual. Right? It's meant to be adaptive, to be fluid depending on the teacher, depending on the students, depending on the location. That's what it's meant to do is to be able to put the curriculum in the hands of the educator and to bring their students into it and to really design it themselves based on the three components and the three pedagogical perspectives. And so, the ultimate goal, I think, of of the framework is to not put an emphasis on on scores. Right? I really don't see academic achievement in terms of scores and grades, but really fostering critical thinking, providing tools for students to be able to see and support their communities no matter where they are, really just to be stewards in in those aspects, in those places that they come from. And so I think in non native Hawaiian classrooms or, the framework is meant to adapt to that, is meant to take take a hold of this particular place that the educator is in, and explore that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Awesome. And then before we start to wrap up here, is there anything else about the work that you've done, that you think is important that we haven't discussed so far?

Speaker 2 Well, it's definitely still a work in progress, and it's been adapting as as we speak. But I think that I would I would like to say that the framework, you know, is meant for the educator as well to kind of go through this process of Pilina, Kuliana, and Pono for themselves. So I've went through this process myself, I think, as as we've, as I I've developed the framework. And I think that would kind of be, like, the first thing I would say if an educator is thinking about this is to start with Pilina. Go into the community. Right? Develop relationships and understand place and make those community connections. Do community service. Talk to the locals in the area, and just try to understand some of the issues that are going around in the community. Develop that. And then also ask yourself, what is my as an educator? What are my responsibilities? Why am I here? What are my goals? What are my intentions? And how and lastly, how can I make a difference? Educators have this huge ability to impact so many people and can potentially create massive positive change in communities, and environments. And so I would just advise anyone looking at the framework to think how they could go through this progression, themselves and put themselves in in this progression before they can implement it in the classroom.

Speaker 1 And this sort of answers my last question. But, you know, moving on from just this particular framework, what advice would you give to educators who want to incorporate these ideas, but also just progressive pedagogy and critical pedagogy into their lesson plans, particularly in environments where maybe there's a little bit more hostility towards those ideas.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So, really, yeah, same thing is just go through that progression. But with enough education, there's so many aspects to teaching for educators that it's so easy, right, to get caught up in, standards and grades. And not to say that they're not important, but and, you know, standards need to be included in lesson plans and curriculum. But I would say to start with the student. Meet the students where they are. Really think of the student first, and how how can you get their voice? How can you understand them a little bit more before we start to insert all of these standards into our practice? Where we focus on the student, I think, is is huge and at the heart of education is focusing on the student.

Speaker 1 Awesome. Alright. Well, thank you so much for talking to me. It was great having you. Thanks,

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