From Colonial to Solarpunk Education

Speaker 1 Conference to Restore Humanity twenty twenty three is an invitation for k 12 and college educators to break the doom loop and build a platform for hopeful, positive action. Our conference is designed around the accessibility, sustainability, and affordability of virtual learning while engaging participants in a classroom environment that models the same progressive pedagogy we value with students. Instead of long Zoom presentations with a brief q and a, keynotes are flipped, and attendees will have the opportunity for extended conversation with our speakers. Antonia Darter, with forty years of insight as a scholar, artist, activist, and author of numerous works, including Culture and Power in the Classroom. Cornelius Minor, community driven Brooklyn educator, cofounder of the Minor Collective, and author of We Got This. Jose Luis Vilson, New York City educator, cofounder, and executive of EduColor and author of This Is Not a Test, and Iowa WTF, a coalition of young people fighting discriminatory legislation through advocacy, activism, and civic engagement. And instead of back to back online workshops, we are offering asynchronous learning tracks where you can engage with the content and the community at any time on topics like environmental education for social impact, applying game design to education, and anti racist universal design for learning. This year, we're also featuring daily events from organizations, educators, and activists to build community and sustain practice. The conference to restore humanity runs July 24 through the twenty seventh. And as of recording, early bird tickets are still available. See our website, humanrestorationproject.org, for more information. And let's restore humanity together.

Speaker 2 I'll start with addressing students themselves. I believe it starts with recognizing something that this entire system has been structured to prevent you from recognizing, which is that you do have power. As an isolated individual, your power may be minimal, but you still have power as an individual. The way the real power lies is as a collective and as a coming together of forces. We tend to think of that in the realm of labor unions, right, where, you know, one worker versus multiple workers. And the reason there is so much opposition to unionizing is because of just how powerful unionizing as a force is. The same applies to students, I

Speaker 1 welcome to episode one thirty two of the podcast at the Human Restoration Project. My name is Nick Covington. This episode is brought to you by our supporters, three of whom are Trevor Elio, Burton Hobbly, and Rachel Lawrence. Thank you so much for your ongoing support. The trailer you heard in the intro is for our Conference to Restore Humanity, a fully virtual conference that runs July twenty fourth through twenty seventh. We've got a stellar lineup, so we hope you'll join us. Tickets and info can be found at humanrestorationprojectorg/conference. As with all art, speculative fiction tends to reflect the sentiments of the era. During the great depression, for example, Superman first appeared taking down evil businessmen and bankers, the villains of the day. The golden age of comic books was spawned in part by the anxieties of the second world war. And speculative fiction continued to mirror our social anxieties throughout the twentieth century. Atomic warfare in the nineteen fifties, the techno laden data mines in the nineteen eighties, dystopian hyper capitalism in the nineties, and in recent decades, environmental catastrophe. And in the late two thousands, the concept of solarpunk emerged. In 2022, YouTube channel Our Changing Climate with my guest today, Andrewism, published a video titled How We Can Build a Solarpunk Future Right Now, in which they make the case that ultimately, solarpunk envisions a world that might be slower, but more intentional. One that ties humanity closely to the natural world, or as Andrewism put it in a reply to the video, a future with a human face and dirt behind its ears. But if solarpunk is the future with humanity put back in, achieving it means taking control of that future from economic, social, and political forces that seem to be on autopilot to self destruction, utterly divorced from human desires and human intervention. One path we've imagined already, and its grimy survivalist individualism was the defining feature of Reagan era science fiction classics. However, in its radical reimagination of economic and social structures, solarpunk resists the nihilism and doomerism of the grim, dehumanized, technological dystopias that dominated the worlds of, say, Blade Runner, Robocop, and William Gibson's Neuromancer. So do we have the willingness to challenge the predominant social, economic, and political structures and systems that need to be challenged? To change the very nature of humanity's relationship to the planet? What role does education play in all this? My guest today goes by Andrewism on his YouTube channel. His 66 videos covering topics from education, liberation, and history to family, parenting, and of course, solarpunk have nearly 3,000,000 combined views. Young people from around the world are watching and learning from him and participating in the community he's cultivated around his channel, And I hope we can learn from him as well. Andrew, thanks so much for joining me today. Thanks for having me, Nick. Good to be here. So Andrew, you have over a 100,000 subscribers on YouTube, which for our listeners is more than 99% of channels. Yet I'm willing to bet that many in our audience of educators don't know about you, your work, or the ideas that drive your channel. Could you just introduce yourself, your background, and how you arrived at the focus for your channel? And I would be curious to know too about any educational experiences either inside or outside of school that really have shaped who you are to this day.

Speaker 2 My name is Andrew of the YouTube channel, Andrewism. And I began the channel back in 2020, mid twenty twenty. After spending some time trying to develop a blog, I realized that blogging was sort of becoming a dying medium, and I felt like a particular topic that I was hoping to explore will be better suited to the video format. And interestingly enough, very topically, that topic was on the education system. My channel really began with the breakdown of the flaws in our modern education system. I think part of the reason that I'm so passionate about that topic and end up exploring others along the way is because of my background. I did originally in attend school up until standard one, which would be I I would have left standard one at the age of seven, to begin homeschooling, and I spent the rest of my adolescent academic journey homeschooling. Originally, I was a child, so it wasn't by choice. But later on, I had the opportunity to return to state schooling, and I chose to continue on the homeschooling path because although I don't believe that it is the best decision for everybody, it was the best decision for me as someone who has always considered himself to be on a particular path. I felt as though my homeschooling experience was enabling me to pursue that path unencumbered by rather the constraints and time wastes that traditional schooling imposes. The ability to pursue my passions, to hone, refine my skills, really helped me, the freedom, the amount of free time and stuff that I enjoyed. I'd always been a prolific writer even from a very young age. I was writing stories and books and that kind of thing. Well, trying to start writing books and never quite finishing them, but the freedom that Postwing allowed for me enabled me to refine that skill and led me to eventually pursuing that blog, which eventually led me to creating the channel that I have today. And I'm approaching three years of working on the channel, recently accomplished a 100,000 subscribers. And since the very beginning of the channel's inception, the description for on the about section of my channel has been, my name is Andre Sage. I'm trying to learn and explore as much as possible. And that, I think, is really what drives the wide variety of subjects that I explore in my work, desire, the flame, the passion for learning that I've had as a child, that pure curiosity, that voracious exploration and of books, none of that was tampered or tampered by traditional schooling. And so I believe I was able to flourish in a way that I may not have been able to if I had gone through that experience. And so to this day, I still have that fire to try and learn and explore as much as possible, and I think that is what makes me who I am. And I think it's also what has led to my channel's existence today and also my current, political philosophy and outlook.

Speaker 1 Do I understand correct that you're in Trinidad And Tobago currently? Yes. Born, raised, still live there. Okay. One thing that I'm really curious about then is what did the school system in Trinidad And Tobago growing up look like or how from your perspective as a student growing up in it, what practices did you see or what what flaws or would you describe it as more of an Americanized system? Is it unique in the in the Caribbean education system? Could you elaborate on that a little bit?

Speaker 2 Sure. So the education system in Trinidad Tobago is more similar to the British model as we only recently gained independence from The United Kingdom in 1962. So similarly to Britain, we have primary school, secondary school, and then we're you'd have tertiary education. Secondary school being forms one, two, three, four, and five, and then the optional lower and upper six, which is roughly equivalent to an associate's degree, from what I understand, and primary school being standards one to five. We also involve the secondary entrance assessment, which is an examination that students at the end of their primary school career must write in order to be placed into a secondary school. We don't have, like, you know, schools winning based on where you live. It's dependent upon the scores that you receive on that secondary entrance assessment or SCA that would determine where, which school you end up. And, of course, with such a system, it naturally leads to various stratifications in ability and resources available, that kind of thing. So there's a sort of a hierarchy of types of schools from the upper echelon of the prestige schools with names like Queen's Royal College and Saint Joseph's Convent and so on and so forth, and these being an all boys school and an all girls school. The mixed gendered schools, the coed schools tend to be considered lower class or lower quality. So the it creates this hierarchy. It reinforces existing hierarchies. Of course, with these sorts of prestige schools, as they're called, there is a sense of within them, sort of an old boy's network or old girl's network that develops within them that sort of reinforces a lot of the inequalities, even past education. Not to mention, of course, having such a school on your resume really makes a difference. Having the school ring on your hand in a job interview really makes a difference. So after you write for your school and by the way, the SEA exam is a serious deal. Up until recently, the results for all the children in the country were actually published in the newspaper.

Speaker 1 So they would have Andrew

Speaker 2 here's what Andrew got on his on his on his exam scores here? Well, they wouldn't give the exam score, but they would give which school you pass for.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. I got you. Yeah. Oh my goodness.

Speaker 2 And so it's a lot of there is a lot, as you can imagine, a lot of pressure placed on children to do well as early as standard three, which would be, I think, around, like, eight, seven to eight or eight to nine years old. You're ex you expect to begin preparation. And from standard three to standard five, you're sort of pursuing that in their childhood. And not not to mention additional lessons and practice tests, and so is this constant is it stripping of the children's childhood in preparation for this exam. And then you get into secondary school, and the secondary school is forms one, two, and three. In form three, they have another exam called the NCSE. It's not as relevant, however, as the Caribbean secondary education certificate or CSEC, which is across The Caribbean, an exam that you write to basically it's like equivalent of a high school diploma, I guess, to to signify that you graduated secondary school with your passes. And with that program, which really preparation starts, you choose your subjects for that exam in form four, and you prepare for that between form four and form five. What passes you get also determines your trajectory, the amount of passes you get. A lot of jobs require minimum three passes, usually including English and math. And then there are also some schools where you're able to do as many as seven or eight or nine or 10 subjects. I think the standard is seven, but I've known of people who have done, like, ten and twelve subjects as well, which is they do additional exams outside of their own schooling as, I guess, bragging rights or whatever. Right. Right. And then after CSEC, you have form six, which is lower six and upper six. That one is optional.

Speaker 1 It just keeps going? What what is happening here? Yeah. Like I said, it's the equivalent of,

Speaker 2 of, like, an associate's degree. Right? So Oh, okay. Okay. So you have nonmandatory preschool, which begins as early as three. Then you have primary school, which starts at five and continues until, I think, eleven or twelve. And then in secondary school, you have your five years in secondary school. Most people graduate around the age of 16, 17. And then you move on to to secondary, potentially to upper six well, lower and upper six, form six, where you would write another exam called the Caribbean advanced proficient proficiency examinations or CAPE. And that also, like I said, is equivalent to associate's degree. Not everybody does form six, but a lot of people do, and it is in large part made made possible by I I think, Trinidad's culture does have a lot of emphasis on education. Right? Most I don't know about most because I don't have the statistics on hand, but a lot of people who have, if not an associate's or a bachelor's, at least a diploma of some kind. Education is very highly valued because education is free from preschool to secondary school. And then from university, it can be free because it also but it's it can also be partially paid for. So it's also subsidized. It's quite affordable. So it's something that a lot of people pursue, and so it's very competitive job markets and stuff as a result. It's the whole thing.

Speaker 1 It also sounds like literally the definition of a colonial education system. Like you're saying it's Oh, definitely. Essentially adopted entirely from the from the British model. Yeah. It's interesting that that you had mentioned that that first video that you made for your channel is that one that's called Education is Broken. I That was one that I went back and rewatched this weekend and you mentioned, I think the first line in that video is, schools are problematic, that's by design. So, I mean, obviously, what what you're explaining here is just like this totalizing, systematizing, colonial holdover from, you know, a time where where Trinidad Tobago was an actual

Speaker 2 colony of Great Britain. That's how you get into the Concordat. And the Concordat was basically it's an agreement between the government of Trinidad Tobago Okay. And religious bodies in the country that gives religious bodies the rights to determine their own curriculum into nominational schools. Okay. It was signed several several years ago. I can't remember the exact date, but it basically enables so in addition to government schools, you would also have schools that are run at least in part by the Catholic church, the Anglican church. There are Hindu schools. There are a few Muslim schools as well. And I I believe there are certain standards they have to meet in terms of actual, curriculum, but they are also able to include their religious components within that. And when I when I re for example, Saint Joseph's Conference, as I think that that that is, I believe, the oldest school in Trinidad. It was founded in 1870. I don't know if it's the oldest, though, but it's a government assisted Roman Catholic school. It's the oldest continuous secondary school in in Trinidad. So, you know, these institutions have been running these things for a really long time. Right. As you can imagine. And really inducing inculcating these sort of colonial attitudes for a very long time.

Speaker 1 Is that what you see as being the the function, the purpose, perhaps the problem? You know, when you say in that video that schools are problematic by design, what are some of those practices that you see, either just in education generally, in your experience with with the colonial education system there in Trinidad And Tobago, what are some of those things that you think you know are either irrevocably, intractably part of an education system or what are some of the practices or the structures and systems that you see that perhaps could either be changed, you know? Oh, that is a vast, vast topic.

Speaker 2 Do we have to try and encapsulate, like, my major bullet points. Sure. Sure. I would say that some of the major issues that I see in the education system include the emphasis on on test taken. It is extremely, extremely central to the education system locally. And in in some cases, I mean, in addition to CSEC, which is the secondary education exam, you also have certain students taking that concurrently with the SATs. Right? Because K. There's some students who would like to, you know, apply for scholarships and apply for schools abroad. So they're also writing the SATs in preparation for that. So they have the SATs, and they have those things. All those things going on at the same time. So I think the emphasis on test taken as the central component of education is something that needs to go. I think the emphasis on academics and a very particular style of learning to the detriment of all other styles of learning and all other educational pursuits is really detrimental. There are trade schools and stuff locally, but, you know, there's a stigma. There's a stigma associated with pursuing anything other than academics, And that stigma is starting to change because when more people are realizing, oh, wait, you know, like, trade jobs are actually good. We need those too, it turns out. Yeah. But, you know, that's a that's a stigma that exists. Everybody everybody thinks, oh, I don't want my child to be a plumber. I want my child to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer. You know, the classic trifecta.

Speaker 1 Yes. It sounds like a system that's even more designed to rank and sort kids than the American system is. It seems like at least at its core, the American system has the ideal of of, I don't know, meritocracy or egalitarianism and it kinda sounds like that might not even be the case for the for the colonial British system that, you know, the kids in Trinidad And Tobago are are coming up through.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I think if you if you look into if we start our school years, even pre primary school. Right? So preschool and kindergarten. You have a situation where immediately because that's not something that is subsidized pre primary school education, that has to come out to the parents' pocket. And so people who can afford to put their children in that, those children automatically get a head start compared to all the other children who would be now starting education in preschool in in primary school. Mhmm. And then in primary school, a lot of middle and upper class parents adopt to place their children in private schools as opposed to government schools. And so as a result, you also have that distinction between private school educated children and public school educated children. And then you take the exam, and that discrepancy in resources becomes even more apparent once you once you pass through various schools, and some people end up going into schools that are basically dismissed, and others are placed into schools that are seen as the paragon of academic accomplishments nationally. You even have situations where somebody might be living in one side of the island, and they would make the multi hour commute journey every day of the week to put their child in that prestige school that they would have passed for that is on the other side of the island. That is how much emphasis is placed on, you know, the prestige of the kind of schools of of the school that you would attend. And then you get into, of course, religious bodies in their hand and everything, and then you get into, of course, teachers being paid badly. You get into the lack of teachers in some schools, teachers being absent in some schools, and it just and then all that takes place, and then you have situations where people drop out to school or people don't pass or whatever in those so called lower class schools. And and then in some cases, you know, they turn to crime, and we complain about the crime situation in the country. And yet people are not looking at the source where it all begins, the originator of the issue and the potential South Of The issue if it was addressed. I think another issue of the education system, not just locally, but internationally, is a lack of involvement of students themselves in their own education. Because as to to borrow borrow from Paulo Freire, we have this sort of banking model of education. We have this idea that all the students is the the teacher teaches and the student is to be taught. You know? The teacher deposits and the students be deposited within. And so when you don't have that investment and that capacity, really, that that power in your own decisions, regarding your own education, it becomes very easy to create a sort of compliant work and compliances and really just, you know, used to going along with that education, going along with whatever. And so I think one of the primary issues is, you know, the lack of student involvement, is lack of student say in their own education, and that is the fault of both parents and teachers and the education ministry and, yeah, just the whole apparatus.

Speaker 1 And it seems like they're the stakes are particularly high, in that, you know, held over British system for students who veer off track or have interests that don't show up on these very high stakes and for their future, both educationally, perhaps socially and economically, you know, in terms of the prestige of the next step of schooling that they get into, you know, the costs are very high for people who veer from that. Is there any sense of an organized movement towards, I'll call it like a humanized reform or are parents pretty much on their own to deschool or unschool their kids? Is is there a lot of awareness and momentum and movement in that direction at all? Or I've actually seen some momentum towards,

Speaker 2 like, homeschooling, unschooling. Well, homeschooling primarily, whether that form of homeschooling is radical or not is to be seen. But there are you know, of course, there is a a momentum for for homeschooling. There is also I think every year, the parents or the children that have to do these exams, they do, you know, say there has to be something better than this SEA exam. I have been, like, passive calls for an end to that exam system, but the political, religious, and economic interests are far too invested into the way that the education system is. Right now, there's no, political will from the top to actually see those changes implemented. There's also and we could also spoke speak about, like, the education system more broadly and the fact that, you know, certainly, the political system more broadly and the fact that there's a staggering lack of alternatives presented at all in any sort of issue that you face in the country. There's still this sort of back and forth between political parties that neither of which have any interest in actually, changing things for the better or have any sort of actual vision for a future or a transformation of this place. So there are, like, ground level frustrations expressed. There are some ground level changes from individuals, but, unfortunately, there is no larger movement agitating for this sort of change. I think it'll be easier if it was a collaboration between because the teachers express their issues with the education system in terms of their pay and in terms of the fact that they have so many students in one classroom and all these different things. So that's an issue, the teacher to student ratio. You also have teachers who have back pay to you from, like, ten years ago that they still haven't gotten paid yet. You have Good lord. Yeah. You also have situations. Of course, you have parents discussing issues. You have there's also an issue of, like, school fights in certain schools. There's also, students and stuff being frustrated, stressed out, you know, like, teen suicides and stuff as a result of the stress that's placed Yeah. In the education system and at home and all those different things. Of course, that's that's not the only factor, but I would say that school stress is one of the factors. But there is no, like, drawing together of the parents and the students and the teachers to say, we have all these issues, and let's collaborate to make a change. I think part of that is, of course, related to ageism, which is deeply connected with, you know, the issues of the education system. So the ageism because even though students may have ideas, students may express issues, know your place. Your place is not to your place is to go and absorb your education and graduate. Your place is not to actually stop and and try and change things. Just do what you're told. You know? So that sort of cultural shift also would need to take place.

Speaker 1 Seeing kids as as agents of change, as capable of creating Yeah. A different future.

Speaker 2 Not only what outsiders need to see that, but children themselves would need to see that. We need to recognize that.

Speaker 1 To kind of bring education back into the the broader scope of the work that you do on your channel, a lot of it is while those previous comments kind of seem, you know, like things are are trapped in this stagnation or the status quo. A lot of the work that you do on the channel is is a lot more visionary in its scope and talks of change making and liberation and building alternate futures. Do you kind of see your channel as an outlet for that? What what kind of the goals and aspirations, yeah, of you talking about change making? What what advice do you offer to young people or educators who would desire to make change? You know, either locally in your own context or in the broader context of education,

Speaker 2 politics, society, more broadly, you know? Yeah. So I think actually one of main reasons that I started the channel is because I wanted to express to get these things out here, these things I was learning about. Originally, my channel was meant to be for a local audience, but it wasn't really picked up by a local audience, and it ended up being picked up by an international audience. I do have a local audience still, but, of course, not the majority of the 100,000 people that I have at this point. But I really wanted to put forth not just an opposition to the way things are, not just a criticism of what is, which is what I was seeing a lot of online, but to also project, to put out, to imagine what if you know, what other futures might we explore, what other solutions we will be able to implement in the here now. And that is part of why I've continued to hold fast to, I guess, my anarchist principles, my anarchist political philosophy because I believe that it has been the vehicle through which I've been able to understand a lot of the issues that I see and also how solutions may be found. Because of anarchism's emphasis on anarchism as a method, because of its emphasis on prefigurative politics, which is the development of relationships and institutions and structures and organizations meant to reflect a desired future in the here and now, but because of its emphasis on that preferative politics. I have continued to use it to fuel my delivery of these ideas to help me realize a better understanding of what my goals and aspirations are. For the educators, there are a lot of different, approaches you can take with this. Right? I'll start with addressing students themselves. I believe it starts with recognizing something that this entire system has been structured to prevent you from recognizing, which is that you do have power. As an isolated individual, your power may be minimal, but you still have power as an individual. Where the real power lies is as a collective and as a coming together of forces. We tend to think of that in the realm of labor unions, right, where, you know, one worker versus multiple workers. And the reason there is so much opposition to unionizing is because of just how powerful unionizing as a force is. The same applies to students, I believe. I believe that there is potential if enough students were to come together to demand certain changes being made to collaborate with sympathetic educators and to collaborate with sympathetic parents that such changes could be made. I mean, it's not like we are let's not even get into the realm of the ideal education system. If we're even talking about improvements, massive improvements in the education system, there are multiple models that already exist, that are already in practice around the world today that we can learn from and replicate and build upon. Thinking about the free schools, for example, thinking about the, Freire movement, thinking about the Montessori education system. There are elements within all of these systems and curriculums that provide avenues democratic schools is another example. They provide avenues for students to have a say to practice exercise in their own power, to practice their ability to collaborate with others for shared goals, to develop their powers, to make change, and to develop their powers and to develop their drives rather, to seek those changes out, to build upon their consciousness so that they are able to understand the world around them and understand their place within it and how they can shape it. And this is where I just get back to, you know, this is not a sort of change that any person in a position of power want to see because it goes contrary to the very aims of creating a compliance citizenry, creating a a passive populace. So I think for students, I want them to understand their power. I want them to look at examples of the history on the world and think about ways that they can see those changes made. Of course, every education system is different. The autonomy of various educations is different. The size of countries may be different. So, for example, movement in a few schools, in a handful of schools in Trinidad, for example, may be able to have a much larger impact on the education system than the same amount of schools might have in a country as large as United States. Right? But that doesn't mean that such efforts would go to waste. No change could occur. If every school in a county or a state, then perhaps they could see a shift. I mean, what I'm seeing in The US is it's it's a delusional effort, but it's an effort and a collective and organized effort nonetheless to see the removal of critical race theory from schools. Right? That is an organized effort by parents across The United States, and they are showing up to these school board meetings. They're showing up at their schools, and changes are being made. Now where I think people get tripped up is they see conservatives doing something, and they think, oh, well, that means that people are left with the same thing. Yes and no. Yes. We can organize on a large scale and see changes come to pass, but I don't believe it will be as easy as it is for conservatives because conservatives, by and large, are reinforcing a preexisting status quo. The way desire certain tweaks in a negative direction, but they are still reinforced. So they said they don't really come into combat with power structures the way that the changes that we would be trying to implement would come into conflict with, you know, such power structures. And so recognizing that, yeah, we can organize in this way, but, also, it's not gonna be as easy as, some of these parents who are just able to ban entire bookshelves from their school libraries was just

Speaker 1 a whim, you know? I don't wanna shift gears too dramatically, but I would Sure. Be seriously remiss if we weren't able to try to see how in the bigger picture scheme of things that solarpunk vision of the future fits into it. Some of the most popular videos on your channel are related to that notion of solarpunk and you've collaborated with other channels to produce information and activism and awareness and consciousness raising around those things. So Yeah. Let's bring that vision into this conversation of of status quo and political and social arrangements here. So what does solarpunk offer as a future worth attaining or building towards since, you know, you've you've spent so much time thinking and creating advocacy around it?

Speaker 2 I mean, I adopted solarpunk as an aesthetic on top of my preexisting politics because I believe it's one of the most powerful venues. The the story and the visuals, the aesthetic that solarpunk projects is something that I believe is far more powerful than any amount of oratory skill, any amount of political theory might possess. I think that when it comes to what solarpunk offers as part of a a a future with building towards, I think it offers a balanced if if, well, if properly applied, I think it offers a balanced sense of hope, a recognition that we can build towards the best and also prepare for the worst because there is a spectrum of, sort of, solarpunk ideas and visions. Right? There are visions of solarpunk that are highly optimistic. They're like, oh, we invent this technology, and then we solve climate change, and we all live happily ever after. And then there are also visions of solarpunk that are like, oh, yeah. The, the climate apocalypse, it happened, but also we are surviving and thriving nonetheless. We are built we built a better world that is able to withstand. We built a resilient world. We built a more inclusive world. We built a slower, more intentional, and more meaningful way of life. I think I'm on that latter end of things. I think that the that's what sort of punk offers is the ability to recognize things might get bad, but even when things get bad, it doesn't mean that all is lost. There are still things that we can explore in our local scene, changes we can make on a local and regional level to create a more resilient, a more autonomous, a more democratic, a more ecologically grounded way of life. As I think solarpunk offers something for both the hopeful futurists who want to see amazing climate change solved world. And, also, I think it offers something to people who are battling with accepting the fact that, you know, even with our best of efforts, climate change is already here, and, you know, we we don't want to slip into apathy or or worse. So what can we do? I think Sudipunk offers are what you can do When it is grounded in, I think, a coherent political schema, I think solarpunk offers that what you can do even when things seem to be getting worse.

Speaker 1 I think I would fit in with your camp as well in terms of thinking that it's going to take the excesses of capitalism and probably some amount of ecological disaster for for the pendulum to begin to swing back the other way. Just kind of given the trajectory of things and where we're at in terms of climate change right now. But it is it is certainly the case then that solarpunk will provide us the response and the reaction and the the what's next sort of idea. So if if we can't turn around the excesses of capitalism and global climate change right now, how do we do that ten years down the line when temperatures have risen or when you know, we finally see that this thing brings us to the brink of collapse, that doesn't mean that we have to go away or that doesn't mean we have to you know, live these miserable impoverished lives. It actually gives us, as you had mentioned, not just the hope, but hope is a platform for action in terms of how we can rebuild and do things better in the absence of the excesses of the previous system.

Speaker 2 One of the things I really intended to emphasize was our power to see these changes come to pass. And I think I also wanted to deliver the point that solarpunk has something to offer for people involved in all sorts of struggles for change. I think it offers a way of framing those struggles within a sort of picture that one can look towards as the struggle to make those changes, as something to look forward to rather than something to just avoid or to fight against. And so I know that's sort of punk may be contentious for some because they see some interpretations of it that are high technology, and they're like, oh, what about the rare earth minerals and this and the other? And I completely hear that perspective. And so I I know that sort of is not for everybody, even my brand of medium to low tech and rewilded form of of solarpunk. But I still want to extend that invitation to sort of interpret how solarpunk can be applied to one's own desired future if it has any place at all and also invite people to involve themselves in shaping solarpunk. It's not completely set in stone yet. It's still an evolving idea that we all have to shape. And if you want to see, for example, an emphasis on changes in the education system and creating a liberty dedication and to quote the Human Restoration Project's website, to see social justice as a cornerstone of educational success and to see rooted in purpose, finding, and community relevance, then come and be a part and and see that aspect of things flourish.

Speaker 1 Well, gosh. But I appreciate you taking the time today, Andrew. A future with a human face and dirt behind its ears, I think that's that's something valuable and noble for us to work and to strive for and I appreciate the ability to collaborate with you internationally and for us to kind of be in solidarity and in community together. So I appreciate you taking the time. Definitely. And thanks again for having me, Nick.

Speaker 3 Thank you again for listening to our podcast at Human Restoration Project. I hope this conversation leaves you inspired and ready to start making change. If you enjoyed listening, please consider leaving us a review on your favorite podcast player. Plus, a whole host of free resources, writings, and other podcasts all for free on our website, humanrestorationproject.org. Thank you.